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F I D O N E W S -- Vol.10 No.32 (09-Aug-1993) +----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | A newsletter of the | | | FidoNet BBS community | Published by: | | _ | | | / \ | "FidoNews" BBS | | /|oo \ | +1-519-570-4176 1:1/23 | | (_| /_) | | | _`@/_ \ _ | Editors: | | | | \ \\ | Sylvia Maxwell 1:221/194 | | | (*) | \ )) | Donald Tees 1:221/192 | | |__U__| / \// | Tim Pozar 1:125/555 | | _//|| _\ / | | | (_/(_|(____/ | | | (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. | | | -- JOSEPH PULITZER | +----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | Submission address: editors 1:1/23 | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Internet addresses: | | | | Sylvia -- max@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | | Donald -- donald@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | | Tim -- pozar@kumr.lns.com | | Both Don & Sylvia (submission address) | | editor@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | For information, copyrights, article submissions, | | obtaining copies and other boring but important details, | | please refer to the end of this file. | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ======================================================================== Table of Contents ======================================================================== 1. Editorial..................................................... 2 2. Articles...................................................... 2 How to use the Internet Through FidoNet..................... 2 Professional Volunteers..................................... 3 PRIME and HOLY_BIBLE, The Wholly Bible Echo................. 4 Announcing the Horror Fiction Echo.......................... 6 A Better Moderator Bureau?.................................. 6 Just a user................................................. 7 Holy Policy................................................. 9 Announcing IndraNet......................................... 10 Original Subj : XAB Complaint threatened.................... 11 ARJ vs ZIP, the Real Story?................................. 11 FIDONET CARES............................................... 12 AND ON A SLIGHTLY MYSTICAL NOTE............................. 13 3. Fidonews Information.......................................... 13 FidoNews 10-32 Page: 2 09 Aug 1993 ======================================================================== Editorial ======================================================================== Editing is a weird job. Especially for the Snooze. One really neat thing about it is we get lots of mail from everywhere and it's all different. Someone suggested we re-start running a list of software available for different machines to connect to the net. Sounds like a good plan. Any volunteers for compiling software lists? We were sittng on the floor in an art gallery yesterday having a party, and someone told me she felt very odd looking at paintings she didn't necessarily like while feeling she had to say something about them. I asked, "why bother talking if you don't say what you mean?". Of course, back patting is kind and occasionally generative, reinforcement is humanely pleasant; enforcement looks very similar and can be rather sinister. Civility is a fine dance on an uneven floor with everyone in costumes. ======================================================================== Articles ======================================================================== How to use the Internet Through FidoNet by Matt Riedel, 1:2606/408@FidoNet.org Many people either don't know there is a way to do this, and others know there is a way, and just don't know how. To send e-mail through FidoNet to the InterNet, is quite simple. The major FidoNet Gateway to the Internet is at 1:1/31@FidoNet.org. Address a netmail message to the recipient in the InterNet style addressing scheme. When it asks the FidoNet address, put 1:1/31. Then just put your subject and message as usual. Here is a sample message: Fr.: Matt Riedel, 1:2606/408@FidoNet.Org To: Joe.Schmoe@Internet.com, 1:1/31@FidoNet.Org Subj.: Hi! =============================================================== Hi! This is my message. or, this is an alternative way: Fr.: Matt Riedel, 1:2606/408@FidoNet.Org To: Hostmaster, 1:1/31@FidoNet.Org Subj.: Hi! =============================================================== To: Joe.Schmoe@Internet.com <skip this line!!> Hi! This is my message. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ As a member of FidoNet, you automatically get an InterNet address. It is a universal form that is quite simple to remember. its: FidoNews 10-32 Page: 3 09 Aug 1993 <FirstName>.<LastName>@f(node#).n(Net#).z(zone#).fidonet.org or, if you are a point: <FirstName>.<LastName>@p(point#).f(node#).n(net#).z(zone#).fidonet.org Note: 1:1/31 is the official FidoNet<->InterNet gateway. There are others around, if you look. 1:1/31 is in Piscataway, NJ, and if your hub/host allows you to route netmail, you may do it that way. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Professional Volunteers Professional Volunteers by: Dave Maddux @ 1:3625/443 In more than a few articles and throughout the mails we are reminded that Fidonet is "only a hobby" and that the mail moves through the efforts of many "unpaid volunteers." This seems to mean different things to different people. This is what it means to me. In a recent article I heard Fidonet described as a "social net" and that a "profession is exactly what Fidonet is not." In the same issue another author described it as a "cooperative network" and had some other things to say about responsibilities. These views do not necessarily conflict. Nor do I disagree. Although I'm a newcomer to this hobby I do know something about being an unpaid volunteer. I have been involved with volunteer organizations for more than a few years at all levels from grunt to administration. From that viewpoint I will make the following observations. 1) Fidonet performs a service. No matter whether Fidonet is a social net, cooperative net, only a hobby, or is run by amateur volunteers; nor does it matter that no sysop is obligated to provide it. It is still a service. 2) Sysops provide that service. We make it work and BBS users view us as service providers. I do realize that all nodes are not BBSs but most are and for the purposes of this discussion that point is irrelevant. 3) The one thing (perhaps the only thing) that distinguishes any service is the professionalism practiced by its providers. Working without pay or simply being an amateur has never been an acceptable reason for unprofessionalism when one is providing a service to others. 4) It makes no difference whether we wish our service to be "distinguished" or even feel obligated to act professionally. If we don't we are still seen by those users in the light of what we do. I would hope that most sysops are concerned that they provide FidoNews 10-32 Page: 4 09 Aug 1993 their users and the net with the best service possible. If that is not our primary concern then what is, having fun? Great! Any hobby should be fun. The fact remains that if we are having fun at the expense of someone else or we can't get the job done for having fun then we cut ourselves and the net down to a crappy size. No less so if we spend much of our energy quarreling with each other. Recently, I did a dumb thing. I won't go into the details except to say that it was the result of my not having considered the rules more earnestly. Quite a few Fido folks corrected me in this matter and they were right to do so. It is my responsibility to know the rules and abide by them. I thanked them for my chastisement, apologized for my lack of professionalism, and promised not to make the same mistake again. I was a little embarrassed. I'm learning. It's still fun. I don't think I'm a "control junkie." I tend to agree with those who feel Policy 4 could easily be 4 pages long. Professionalism does not imply control; it simply means getting the job done and doing it the absolute best that I can without letting emotions or petty things get in the way. Isn't that something like not being too easily annoyed?" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PRIME and HOLY_BIBLE, The Wholly Bible Echo Steve Winter FidoNet 1:18/98 Those who want false christianity or a visit with infidels certainly have several networks and echos available, but if any are interested in "non-compromised" Apostolic Christianity, I encourage you to check out PRIME. As far as the reprobate oneness nets go, I believe the Lord allready rated them just a tad below a dunghill. Luke 14:34 Salt [is] good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned? Luke 14:35 It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; [but] men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. If you are interested in a network where truth is not compromised for the sake of false christian fellowship and "friendship with the world", check out PRIME: Please spread this info around. Thanks!! *************************************************************** * __________ __________ ___ ________ * * | | | | | |\ /| | * * | | | | | | \ / | | * * |________| |________| | | \ / | |______ * * | | \ | | \/ | | * * | | \ | | | | * * | | \ | | | | * * | | \ _|_ | | |_______ * FidoNews 10-32 Page: 5 09 Aug 1993 * * * 'The sun never sets on the PRIME network' * *************************************************************** * PreRapture(tm) International Message Exchange * *************************************************************** With nodes in NORTH AMERICA, AFRICA, EUROPE, ASIA, and growing. PRIME is the Only True Christian worldwide network on earth. * Both Religious (Christian) and non-religious conferences. * A wholesome, family oriented network with a strict policy against profanity, lewdness, obscenity etc.. Features echos on educational and technical topics. * Elaborate Bible Discussion and Debate * False Preachers Exposed * 919-286-3962 * 919-286-3606 * 919-286-3266 * 919-286-2100 Using USRobotics Dual Standard Modems V.32bis-14,400 / HST-16800bps * FREQ PRIME.ZIP from 1:18/98, or 6:700/447 for network kit * -={ HOLY_BIBLE Echo Conference }=- Available through the PRIME Network and on the FidoNet Zone 1 and Zone 2 Backbone * The only true Christian Conference in FidoNet * ******** Acts 2:38 *++++++* John 3:5 *+ ** +* **************+ ** +************* *+++++++++++ ++++++++++* *+ ******* HOLY_BIBLE ****** +* *+++++++++++ ++++++++++* **************+ ** +************* *+ ** +* Gal 1:8 *+ ** +* Mark 12:29 *+ ** +* I Tim 3:16 *+ ** +* Acts 2:4 *+ ** +* Isa 45:21 *+ ** +* Mark 16:16 *+ ** +* Acts 10:46 *++++++* Acts 19:5 ******** Hebrews 5:9 Acts 22:16 James 1:22 HOLY_BIBLE and WHOLLY_BIBLE (C)Copyright 1988-93 Steve Winter, All rights reserved worldwide (with contributers retaining all rights to their contributions) A very strict conference designed to expose fakes by requiring that doctrines be proven with scripture. FidoNews 10-32 Page: 6 09 Aug 1993 Announcing the Horror Fiction Echo by Steve Derby, 1:161/414 Horror Fiction echo now available Do you like to be scared? Want to talk about that novel you read which kept you up all night wondering if something under the bed was going to come out and spirit you away into the night? Would you like to read reviews and comments about horror movies before spending your money to see them? There's a new echo now available to all fans of horror fiction. The HORROR echo is dedicated to discussion of horror fiction of all types. The echolist description pretty much says it all: The Horror echo is designed for discussion of contemporary and classic horror in all media: novels, short stories, films, magazines, TV, radio, comics, etc. Discussion topics include announcements, reviews, critiques and general chatter and discussion. Something for all horror fans! While posting of original creative works is not the *primary* purpose of this echo, that's certainly allowed, too. Anyone interested in receiving HORROR, please netmail Steve Derby @ 1:161/414. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- A Better Moderator Bureau? by Steve Derby, 1:161/414 Comments on "Moderator Guides Recommended" in Snooze 10(31) In the recent Fidonews, Kent Anderson proposed a practice which he hoped would better echomail. In essence, his idea was to formulate a set of voluntary guidelines which would advise moderators in how to conduct echomail business. Under Kent's plan, those moderators who chose to follow these guidelines and wished to advertise it, could have a notation added to the echolist. The idea is inspired, but has some problems which need to be addressed. Kent's plan can be divided into two basic parts, which should be looked at separately: (1) The development of guidelines for echo moderators and (2) flagging moderators which agree to follow the guidelines. First, developing guidelines. Some moderators resist the suggestion that others should be able to tell them how to run their echos, and with good reason--some of the decisions moderators have to make just don't fit easily into any one "policy" box. However, the way things stand now (with the essentially useless BOP), users don't have any recourse if they feel they've been treated unfairly by a moderator. Like anyone else, moderators make mistakes and occassionally exercise poor judgement. FidoNews 10-32 Page: 7 09 Aug 1993 For this reason, I feel that it would be very appropriate to develop some basic guidelines (voluntary or otherwise) for echos. Rather than telling a moderator what to do, though, it seems more logical to develop guidelines from the standpoint of an echo user. At the very least, 2 things should happen. First, moderators should always be able to document any disciplinary action they take. It seems that every few weeks there's an article in the snooze from someone claiming that such-and-such moderator kicked him or her out of whatever echo for no reason. Second, folks should have somewhere to appeal to if they feel they've been treated unfairly by a moderator. Whoever the apealee is, though, should only be able to reinstate a cut node or person. Giving them the power to remove or discipline a moderator is just inviting trouble. Switching to flagging adhering (enough "ing" words for you?) moderators in the echolist. I think this is a bad idea. No matter what set of guidelines is developed, there are going to be those who disagree with the document, many with perfectly legitimate reasons. Singling out those persons who do and do not agree with that specific set implies a value judgement on those echos and those moderators. Why brand folks without giving them a chance to explain *why* they don't want to ally themselves? The best way to decide how good an echo is isn't to look for a notation the echolist, it's to join it for a while and make a decision based on first-hand experience. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Just a user From: Rodger Donaldson (3:771/410) Now, I'm "just" a FidoNet user. Not a sysop, not even a point. I haven't even been on Fido for that long-maybe 6 months or so. I count myself as an enthusiast though, so I'm sorta concerned about the problems in Europe. I mean, when a couple of hundred nodes dissapear-hundreds of systems, maybe thousands of users like me, no longer able to enjoy this hobby of ours-I'd tend to assume there had to be a pretty good reason, especially when the same thing happening in Germany is gonna happen in the UK soon. I've always been told I'm rather intelligent. But, try as I might, I can't work out why this is happening. I've taken a squizz at policy 4, followed the debates in FidoNews, and chatted with my Sysop about it. Still doesn't make sense. Why, I ask myself, is this GeoNet thing floating around? The only reason I've been able to discern so far is that it makes things work better in Zone 1. Even on that score, there seem to be more than a few people over there who are unenthusiastic about it; but even assuming it _does_ work better in Z1, why does that mean it should be rammed down the rest of the planet's throat, like it or not? Here in Z3, we just voted to change to LHA as our standard NodeDiff compressor. Works for us, right? (Well, there's one bloke with an Archimedes for whom it doesn't, FidoNews 10-32 Page: 8 09 Aug 1993 but I'm sure a work-around will be arranged). Maybe, though, it wouldn't for everyone else-maybe everyone else wants Arc. Fine, who are we to impose our solutions on everyone else? Heck, if our ZC was like Z2's, the guy with the Arch would be kicked off for not having a port or LHA available! But that would be silly, right? If he can find someone willing to convert the NodeDiff to Arc, why should he be excluded, right? Anyone starting to notice something here? That maybe the solution to this particular problem, archive format, is going to come about with a little good will and application of a modicum of good sense? Both to the Arch owner, and to Z3's desire to go LHA vs. the rest of the world's desire to keep using ARC? Seems to work, right? Better than a holy Jihad based around a narrow interpratation of the rules. Heck, the decision was made by vote! So, I'm at a loss to understand the GeoNet thing. Was there a zone-wide vote for change in Z2, or a vote in any of the regions? Nope, don't look like it from here. Is it causing problems? Well, I guess I'd call over 800 nodes, at last count, leaving Fido a "problem". Is it making it work any better? Well, forcing people who perhaps don't like each other to work together, adding $$$ (DM, actually) to the cost of persuing a hobby, and cutting off a significant number of people altogether doesn't sound better to me! So why is it being done? I don't see any application of that common sense I mentioned before happening here! So, could someone, anyone, preferably a driving force behind this change, kindly explain why this is being done? Not by beating me over the head with a rulebook-because, in the real world, stupid laws usually get changed-but by explaining its practical benefits? Maybe if it's impossible to do that, the GeoNet idea really _is_ stupid, at least in some parts of the world. And maybe if it is stupid, so are the rules that mandate it. And maybe, just maybe, they should be abandoned, or, at least, fine tuned to make them work a little better for *all* FidoNetters...sysops, users, and *Cs alike. Because this is-as I understand it, anyway-a world wide hobby, kept going by a bunch of dedicated people-the sysops-and supported by avid fans-the users. And maybe it should look-and act-a little more like that. Just a thought, anyway. Rodger Donaldson, 3:771/410. FidoNews 10-32 Page: 9 09 Aug 1993 Holy Policy From: Stanton McCandlish (1:301/2) To: editors (1:1/23) 1) The reliance on Holy Policy in this net is appalling. When a network considers following a largely arbitary pile of rules to the letter, regardless of their [lack of] logic, and applicability to the situation at hand, to the detriment of an entire region of the world, SOMETHING IS VERY WRONG. I urge that people no only support German sysops resisting the coming of PolicyNazis(TM) to their area, but I also urge everyone in Fido to DEMAND a new policy. Is there anyone near me getting the alternative nodediffs with the original R24 structure intact? I want it and will be happy to make it available to all comers. 2) It's time we moved on to a domainist addressing scheme. This nodediff business is an anachronism, and is threatening not only the fabric of the net, as it tears itself apart, due to the ludicrosity of a setup that allows a handful of people to ruin whole regions, but also threatens the viability of the net itself, given the size of the nodediffs, and the fact that one has to keep a 2+ megabyte nodelist lying around. On my system, the NL, and it's FD index files take up about 60k short of FIVE MEGABYTES. Just ridiculous. 3) ARC must go. If you added up the money WASTED in this network, total, carting around archives that are 30% or so larger than they need be, it comes out to a VERY large amount. Just doing some guesstimated math: VERY conservative estimate of mail costs per month due to feeding CRPs and paying phone bills: US$5 Thus at about 30% wasted, that's about US$1.70 per month, per person. At roughly 22,000 sysops, that's US$37,000 per MONTH, or US$444,000 per year. When one considers that many systems have mail bills that are several HUNDRED dollars per month, you can see how conservative this estimate is, even if you lop off some of that 30% to account for time spent in modem connection negotiation, and the passing of handshake packets. Stop all this "compatibility whining". Use PK[Un]Zip. If you don't have an IBM clone, get InfoZip, which is FULLY PKZip 2.04g compatible, and is availalble compiled for DOS, Windows, Mac, Amiga, VMS, OS/2 (16- and 32-bit), and more besides, and is also availble in source code format so you can port it to your Acorn Archimedes RISC, NeXT, DEC, Sun, or whatever. No more excuses, sorry. You can FREQ the source from me, nodelisted or not, Fido or not, as ZIP19P1.ZIP. 4) Ignore silly tests like that Arj vs Zip one. Arj and Zip are both fine formats that do a good job. Arj beats Zip in some cases, and fails to do so in others. Zipping up one 2 meg file is NOT an adequate test. 5) Since Tom Jennings does happen to hold copyright on the nodelist, FidoNews 10-32 Page: 10 09 Aug 1993 perhaps, if he sees the R24 situation as the screwy mess we all do, he should attempt to use this ownership of said document to force some changes that are in concurrence with what appears to be a majority of the people in R24? Just a thought. 8) nuff said. Please direct all flames to 2:24/0, and cc them to 2:2/0. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Announcing IndraNet From: Stanton McCandlish (1:301/2) To: Editor (1:1/23) -=>Announcing IndraNet!<=- What have we got? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ About 30 echos, ranging from computer tech, cyberspace/networking, UFOs and scientific debate, through genealogy, D&D, and Celtic myth, to modems, TriBBS support, marketplaces, and creative writing. The freedom to say what you like, where you like, in the manner you like. The right to control your own system, to join any net you wish, to be a hub regardless of any other hubs near you, and to start a new net or echo at any time. Great discussion, great attitudes, great people, great systems. Nodes in 4 states and 4 countries, growing all the time. Support for Fido formats as zone 369, plus support for QWK format mail. What DON'T we have? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ NO *C's. The only "position" in the net is that of nodelist maker, which does nothing but make a nodelist. NO MODERATORS. Participants police themselves, just like in UseNet (the world's largest online conference network, with several MILLION users worldwide. It works. The shoe fits, so we wear it.) NO FASCISTS. NO ONE can tell you what to do, where to feed, what to call your board, when your system is operating, who you may give net access to, or anything else. NO CENSORSHIP. Period. Ever. NO POLICY DOCS. Our rules are simple: take responsibility for yourself, don't flame when a reasonable debate is more useful to all involved, do not attempt to abridge the rights of others, do not restrict others' access to the net. That's it. FidoNews 10-32 Page: 11 09 Aug 1993 Does it work? Sure does! And you can be a part of it. For an info packet, containing nodelist, echolist, application, & newsletter, FREQ magicname INDRANET from NitV, 1:301/2. To get this list by BBS download (e.g. if you are QWK system), call NitV at +1-505-246-8515, N81, 1200-14400 v32b v42b, 24 hr., and look for IN!?????.ZIP in the BBS-NET file area. See ya online! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- XAB Complaint threatened From: Paul Dickie (2:256/62) To: The Editors (1:221/192) Subject: XAB Complaint threatened Greetings! This was sent to me, by a sysop in 250. I shall make no further comment about it, for no further comment is needed... ====================================================================== Original Area : NET_250_SYSOP (NET_250_SYSOP) Original From : Paul Carroll, 2:250/412 (30 Jul 93 15:00) Original To : All Original Subj : XAB Complaint threatened ===================================================================== Hi All, This is to advise you all that ZC Dwight has threatened an XAB complaint against me because of some inaccuracies in my recent article in FidoNews. I have sent another article to FidoNews correcting these incaccuracies: whether this placates Dwight remains to be seen. So if 250/412 disappears from the nodelist, you'll know why. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ARJ vs ZIP, the Real Story? By Clay Tinsley, 1:124/5125 Real Life Comparisons of ARJ and PkZip >While this is great and all, it hasn't even been mentioned what file >type is compressed and decompressed more than any other in Fidonet, day >in and day out - the .PKT mail bundle. It would be unfair to leave >this most popular file type out of the test. >Let's take another sample - I rescanned 500 msgs in POLITICS to a fake >node, and compressed the resulting 955k packet using maximum >compression: > ZIPMAIL ZIP 314833 > ARJMAIL ARJ 320505 FidoNews 10-32 Page: 12 09 Aug 1993 >As you can see, PkZip can save Fidonet many collective dollars each day >though reduced long distance phone bills. One thing here that most people seem to forget about ARJ. It has a "Huffman Buffer" that's accessed with the "-jh" switch. It's been hashed out in the ARJ echo for years now, and the best that people have found is the "-jh11010". I would ask Mr. Tinsley if he included this switch in his experiment. Also there's the fact that ARJ keeps the paths that the file is in, by default. To stop that, you include the "-e" switch. To illustrate this idea, let's say you're ARJing up a sub-directory of 100 files. They are 2 dirs deep, like this: C:\SUB-DIR1\SUB-DIR2 ARJ will store this as SUB-DIR1\SUB-DIR2\FILENAME.EXT for EACH file. So, taking this example, we have an extra 18 bytes per file. With 100 files, you add 1,800 bytes to the file. This is UNCOMPRESSED bytes, as the filenames are uncompressed. This might sound like a small nit to pick, but there are some upload checkers that re-archive the uploads, and it keeps the FULL paths from its temporary sub-directory. They then rename the archive, and then, with DOS's REN command, change it to whatever it was before. (I won't mention any program names, but I've seen this all too many times.) I'm not faulting Mr.s Tinsley. I'm just showing that there are a few other things to think about when doing these comparisions. And BTW. For straight ASCII text files, the best Huffman Buffer setting for ARJ is "-jh65535". If needed, I can do this experiment with the most recent nodelist, and with the proper commandlines. (And fully document those command lines.) I AM all for using something better than ARC, but I'd even settle for LHA as the standard, as it saves much more space than ARC. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONET CARES by Jerry Seward New Echomail Conference: FIDONET_CARES The Great Midwest Floods of 1993 have caused untold damage and heartache to many of the members of our Fidonet family in Regions 11 and 14. This conference is used to elicit information about the needs of Fidonet members and their families that have suffered as a result of this disaster, and to help meet whatever emergency needs they may have by tapping the resources of other Fidonet members outside of the disaster area. FidoNews 10-32 Page: 13 09 Aug 1993 At this time, this echomail conference is being privately distributed, however it is being carried on all the Zone 1 Echomail ZoneHubs, so any Fidonet node should be able to receive this conference from their regular echomail resource. Feeds are available at 2613/333, 260/1, 170/400, 13/13, 396/1, and 209/209. We hope to meet the requirements for listing in FIDONET.NA in the near future. JERRY SEWARD | FidoNet 1:2613/333.0 In*Touch Consulting Services | InterNet jerry@rochgte.fidonet.org 5 Spicewood Lane | UUCP rutgers!ur-valhalla!rochgte!jerry Rochester, New York 14624-3717 | FAX: +1-716-461-3169 USA | Voicemail: +1-716-234-9069 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AND ON A SLIGHTLY MYSTICAL NOTE... There's information available for people with an active interest in old Celtic(Irish) and shamanic religious and spiritual traditions. Write to: Circle, Box 219, Mt. Horeb, WI 53572. (Postcards are OK.) Ask for their info packet, and mention you heard it on FidoNet. Reviews of esoteric neo-p newsletters, publications and meeting announcements are being accepted for inclusion in the Herne bulletin. Send zines or reviews to: NHSK, POB 178, Stratham, NH 03885-0178. For a copy of Herne, send a business-size SASE. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======================================================================== Fidonews Information ======================================================================== ------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ---------------- Editors: Sylvia Maxwell, Donald Tees, Tim Pozar Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince Perriello, Tom Jennings IMPORTANT NOTE: The FidoNet address of the FidoNews BBS has been changed!!! Please make a note of this. "FidoNews" BBS FidoNet 1:1/23 BBS +1-519-570-4176, 300/1200/2400/14400/V.32bis/HST(DS) Internet addresses: Don & Sylvia (submission address) editor@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca Sylvia -- max@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca Donald -- donald@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca Tim -- pozar@kumr.lns.com FidoNews 10-32 Page: 14 09 Aug 1993 (Postal Service mailing address) (have extreme patience) FidoNews 172 Duke St. E. Kitchener, Ontario Canada N2H 1A7 Published weekly by and for the members of the FidoNet international amateur electronic mail system. It is a compilation of individual articles contributed by their authors or their authorized agents. The contribution of articles to this compilation does not diminish the rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in these articles are those of the authors and not necessarily those of FidoNews. Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is copyright 1993 Sylvia Maxwell. All rights reserved. Duplication and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use in other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or FidoNews (we're easy). OBTAINING COPIES: The-most-recent-issue-ONLY of FidoNews in electronic form may be obtained from the FidoNews BBS via manual download or Wazoo FileRequest, or from various sites in the FidoNet and Internet. PRINTED COPIES may be obtained from Fido Software for $10.00US each PostPaid First Class within North America, or $13.00US elsewhere, mailed Air Mail. (US funds drawn upon a US bank only.) INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via FTP from ftp.ieee.org, in directory ~ftp/pub/fidonet/fidonews. If you have questions regarding FidoNet, please direct them to deitch@gisatl.fidonet.org, not the FidoNews BBS. (Be kind and patient; David Deitch is generously volunteering to handle FidoNet/Internet questions.) SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews BBS, or Wazoo filerequestable from 1:1/23 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". Please read it. "Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered trademarks of Tom Jennings, and are used with permission. Asked what he thought of Western civilization, M.K. Gandhi said, "I think it would be an excellent idea". -- END ----------------------------------------------------------------------